Steven Burkhart: Well, Hey, everybody, welcome to the digital hustle Show. I'm here with nyrA. And she is the owner of Spring Hill digital. And there's like a whole agency, right that you use, specifically, and I would say, especially advertising, but you do a range of other things as well. And so you have a very impressive lineup of things you've done, you've have a very long history in it really just starting from the beginning of before, digital marketing and advertising was really a thing. And so you've kind of got to live through all the iterations of it. And I'm sure on some level, that kind of keeps you on the cutting edge of things, because it's always changing. And you're used to that already. So I'm very curious about your perspective, both as a business owner, which is really what we talked about a lot on this show, but then also just like legit perspectives that you have on digital advertising now since it's changing practically every other day. So, so. So I love for you to give a little bit of introduction as far as who you are, and some of the details that I missed as far as some of your history in digital advertising and being a business owner.

Naira Perez: Yes, well, thank you for having me on your show, Steven. Yeah, so I have been in advertising for a while. And I started in direct to consumer, and basically infomercials. And so I've always done performance marketing, where we got coals and orders, and we could follow the script that we get gave to the customer service representative. And we knew when people will drop off. So every time that we saw this data, we could change it to make different decisions in the media placement. And it was not only TV, I've worked on campaigns, and on accounts that had, as an example, magazines, or direct mail pieces, or in the earliest stages, email campaigns. So when Google ads and Facebook started to pick up as a very popular place to do advertising, I made the switch from the more traditional avenues of advertising to digital. And so that optimization that before that, it took weeks, and we thought it was real time. Now to just in the same day, I could do the same optimization, I could actually change creative. And and now within hours, I can do that. So something that got me hooked at the very beginning, which was data in marketing, just it just got better. And that's why I went the digital advertising route. And I finally just decided to set my own start my own company to help small and medium businesses, because normally small and medium businesses have smaller budget, but bigger needs, and they tend to get lost in big agencies, just because you know, their budgets are small. So I love small businesses, and I wanted to help these intrapreneurs and get the same attention that they would in bigger agencies.

Steven: Absolutely. So we certainly love to talk about the Small Business journey because specifically with being an owner, because it is a leap of faith. It's challenging it is it's a lot of things. And so for people who like go down that route, certainly I've got respect for them and sympathy for them. And so what is it so you you've worked in agencies before, right? And so what is it that made you make the leap? Was it that the agencies you working on were too big, and so they weren't serving the clients like you wanted? Or what was kind of the, what launched you into doing that?

Naira: You know, what's funny is the agencies that I was in, they were small when I started and by the time I left, they were very, very big, especially the first one the infomercial one it's it's one of the most respected infomercial agencies in the country. And so I so what it was to go from a very, very specific kind of attention to clients to a different one. And also, once you start growing with the agency, which was fantastic thing, they're both great agencies. But once you start growing, you get farther and farther away from the data and the day to day and I was managing people which is great, but it was farther away. From that optimization, that data that I was in love with. So that's why I started that Spring Hill digital as well to continue being close to that data to continue being close to what's happening every day. And I find a lot of excitement in Oh, a new algorithm, or they made something and now we have to figure out, I know, it's a headache for if you're doing your own advertising, but for me, it's exciting. So yeah, that's, that's basically why and Spring Hill digital is a little bit different, because we do not have employees, we have a network of contractors, where we put a team at specific for your needs. So you know, if somebody needs email marketing, we can get email marketing specialist. If you do not need email marketing, then you do not need that team, the team member in your, in your project. So right. That's how we can be very nimble, very flexible to what each company needs.

Steven: Okay. So then, I think that begs the question is the fact that you have that group of contractors, how you're able to like increase your revenue without making those small businesses disappear? Like how are you preventing that same thing from happening to your agency that you saw happen with the other ones that grew significantly?

Naira: Yeah? Well, that's a great question. Because they're contractors, and we have you we can scale with the business, we're able to keep specialists in each team. So there is, I mean, there is a point where we will have to rethink maybe our model, but we try to keep the model our life. And we try to keep that personal touch. So I'm not using the same Google Ads person for everybody, because they're, you know, very good for a very particular kind of account. So in that sense, I create smaller teams, right? That that can work in our clients, and still give them personalized attention.

Steven: That's awesome. That's cool. You don't want to you don't want to become the very thing that you were trying to avoid, you know, and it's easy, because, as a business owner, you kind of are under the obligation, maybe, or maybe at least feel the pressure to always be growing. But certainly I've talked to a couple business owners were like, Hey, no, like, my business goes this far and no farther. And that was their personal choice. You know, they were they were wanting to work alone, like, you know, no employees. And I don't even think they do any contract work, really. And so yeah, that was for them. So I was just kind of curious what your take was on that.

Naira: Yeah, yeah. And Steven, we've had the opportunity to decide to go for huge contracts that will require us to eliminate that personal touch. And we've decided not to go after such relationships. Also, one difference is, we're partners. And I know a lot of people say, oh, we're partners in these, but we'd really meant it. So each of our opinions count as much as you will, you know, I really count from a partner than great. If you want to ask to be an order taker, then then we're not the right company for you. We're not the right agency. And there's bigger agencies, we'll be able to serve those clients, smaller agencies, I have to pick and choose sometimes, like going back to that initial thought of why did I create a Spring Hill digital is, you know, and just maintain that core in untouched that core belief? And yeah, we've had times that we have to decide, is it money and growing fast? Or is it staying where we want to be?

Steven: Right? I, there's so many different ways I want to go from this because you said so many things that I really, really love and connect with because we actually just wrapped up shooting, like our landing page video, like bio video for our website. And in that, I was very intentional with the wording to use the word partner, which is what you use, which I thought is so fantastic. And so for me, and it sounds like you as well, that that difference is like because of the fact there's a relationship, there's an investment, outside of just money, there's an emotional investment, there's a time investment, and because of that you're able to give certainly much more personal but also better results because of the fact that you have like this long term relationship with them and certainly, and I'm sure you've run into this too. You run into people will be like, oh, like they did something for me, but it wasn't quite what I wanted. And it's like, Okay, well Did, did you guys talk about it and fix it the next time, like, all people end up having is like, a doesn't have decent experiences. And it's kind of like, Well, yeah, if you're not like, revisiting with someone over and over again, that's gonna be really hard for you to nail down exactly what you want. Um, has that has that really been your experience as well? Because I know that certainly has been for me.

Naira: Yeah, yes, absolutely. We, we want to listen to what the client has to say. And we want to be listened to as well. So that is, if the client doesn't speak up, then then we don't know what they want, right. And what it's good for one company doesn't mean that it's good for another already fits their personality. So we're constantly asking questions that will help us serve them better. And so sometimes, as I said, there are people that will just tell you what to do, and you have to do it. And there are people that don't even know what they want. So they there are well you tell me, I'm like, No, no, no, I'm gonna teach you to fish. Fish. And so we asked, very difficult question sometimes. And yeah, and not everybody likes that, either. So if we're in the flow of a conversation, it's important for you, if you want to be a partner in your own advertising, then then we're, we're a perfect match. If you're on one, one side, where you just want it, Dawn and Dawn, anything to do with it, then, you know, maybe there's another place that you can go and that's fine. It is fine, because there is enough good agencies out there, too, to meet the demands of everybody.

Steven: Right? Absolutely. I mean, to me, like I just go back over and over again, to the whole thing of like, a business relationship isn't much different than like, a regular relationship. Like you develop a good relationship, someone because you have honest conversations, because you ask hard questions and like get honest answers, like it is no different in business. You know, if a customer is not able to articulate what it is they want, it's so hard to deliver on that. Because there's a breakdown in communication. And so then you give them something, and they're like, Oh, that's not what I wanted. But they also didn't know what they wanted, either. So it's kind of hard and ends up, never working out for either person. Because there's never that. Defining the relationship talk. Yeah,

Naira: yeah, no, yeah, that's true. I mean, you can you don't want to find out 15 years after marriage. And he's like, Oh, actually, I didn't want kids. But I have five now. So happens, it yeah, it happens. It happens everywhere. And I mean, these conversations are not painful. They're actually I think that most of our clients really welcome these conversations. Yeah. And they're, they're very affable, they're very, very good. Because that helps them in the rest of their business, as well as like, Oh, I never thought about this. You know, I never really considered these other thing. And we have those conversations, while pushing them out of their comfort zone a little bit every time. If you're not pushed, you do not grow. So we help a lot of startups as well. And startups have a lot of emotion, they have a lot of passion, but sometimes they don't have a clear path. So that's where those conversations are very important to is to say, Okay, I know what you're trying to do. And it's amazing. However, you know, let's sit down and make a path for it to happen.

Steven: Right? And that's exactly why someone hires like, someone like you because it's like for them. Like you said, it's they're on a path that's passionate, but not necessarily full of direction. And so for you to be able to like sit down and say like, hey, like, what about this direction over here? I think it does help them in every single area. Because if you're sitting down and saying like, hey, like, how would you like the tone of voice to be in this copy for this ad? And they're like, I don't know, well, then like, how are they going to blog? How are they going to write copy for their website? How are they going to do social media posts, if like they go from, you know, all our tone is sarcastic to super informative, and then it's like that would be confusing. But now that you work through it together with them, they begin to piece that together and say like, no, our tone is upbeat, but informative, and and now that informs everything that they make.

Niara: Yeah, absolutely.

Steven: So you talked about how saying you've had to say no to like, some of the larger clients depending on their needs. Because of the style business you want to run. What other things have you had to say no to that we're kind of difficult or maybe non typical.

Naira: Yeah, um, so I've had to say no to relationships that this is the the hardest one, to a relationship that evolves in a different way that you wanted it to evolve. And know when, when to start their relationship, I'm a person that I know, I can optimize everything. I'm a logistics major, so I love optimizing and getting more efficient. And it's like, Okay, this is not working, how can I make it better? And, you know, at some point, you have to realize that maybe their style of management doesn't match up. And you know, you have to let them go. Before things become worse. In that is a very difficult thing to, to do. And it happens to no fault of anybody. And sometimes it happens, because there is a change in management. And so, you know, the person that you used to do things with that knows you that knows how the relationship was established, and how things go on design is no longer there. And the new person doesn't like your style or whatever. Yeah. So which happens with everybody. So I, I have a hard time letting go, just because of that optimization mentality that I constantly have. And so having to say buy is always painful. And that's the hardest lesson I've learned in my years of business experience. So

Steven: Yeah, yeah, no, that's optimizing people a little bit harder.

Naira: Yes, if not impossible, if not impossible, when anyone's ever made, wanting to make them changes, just realizing at some point that the relationship itself couldn't, couldn't be optimized. It was just a mix match. You know, and that's okay.

Steven: Yeah. I mean, that's the reason there's McDonald's and Burger King and jack in the box, and Carl's Jr. is because they're all burgers, but they're all a little bit different. And, you know, not that, you know, and so it's like, it's kind of similar in the sense that everyone's different, and it's not that someone else's worse or better, they just work a different way, think a different way believe a little bit differently. And, and that's okay, and there'll be someone for them. Carl's Jr. Gets business every single day, maybe not as much as McDonald's. But there are people that are happier going there. And sounds like they'll be you'll be happy. And they'll be happier with a different relationship. business relationship, for sure. Exactly. So was it? So you're you're obviously kind of, you know, I think you mentioned SEO a little bit in some of the stuff you've sent me. But why did you end up going down the advertising route? Is it because of your passion for the data? or How come not copy or just straight up, like, on page SEO? or Why did you end up going with advertising rap?

Naira: Yeah, that's actually an excellent question. Because I've done a little bit of everything. And I always go back to my Excel spreadsheet. That's when I knew. But I really liked the data. Yeah. Some people look at a spreadsheet, and they just kind of go running. And I'm like, Oh, my gosh, what can we learn from these? And the fact that you can just I see paid advertising in, especially in digital, just like a chess board where you just move the pieces, and then you get different results. So yeah, I go back to that optimization mentality of how can I do these more efficiently? And, yeah, SEO, technical SEO has evolved a lot, since I touched it last. And a lot of it base is based on content right now. So I love content. But you know, writing is not, it's not my passion and recognizing your limits is it's important. So when we do creative for our clients, we can do all the way from Creative Media optimization, even some email consulting. When we do it, I hire somebody that is better than me. Yeah. And everybody that is working with springhill Digital is so good at one thing, that they're better than me, therefore, you get the best person at that time. So yeah, that's why I did pay media. I love the algorithm. I love playing with the algorithm.

Steven: Well, there are your special breed then because you're right. I think most people turn tail when they see a Google spreadsheet. So it's nice to know I don't necessarily like the process together. They're so bless your heart because, gosh, people need you. Because most people are not going to want to do that. And there's, you know, there's definitely a skill to it to it. So, you know, you brought up advertising. And certainly even on our podcast, there's been a large debate on the validity of some forms of advertising, like we've definitely hated on Facebook advertising before. Certainly there are a gazillion people who are having great results. And just as many who say that it's the worst, and you should do a different form of advertising. So where do you kind of fall? Do you just pick whatever seems to work best? Like, what the clients most comfortable with? Are there certain areas that you're kind of pulling away from and pushing towards as far as where you're doing advertising? Like, obviously, there's Tick Tock advertising, that's kind of a new thing. So do you find yourself like pushing and pulling any sort of direction?

Naira: Yeah, I always go back to the objectives of the client and their budget. So because if they have budget to do everything, let's do everything. But normally, they have a limited budget. Again, I serve a small to medium businesses, so they have a small budget, and they have a very specific goals. So depending on the goal, then we'll choose a channel as an example, the difference between paid social media, which will be your Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn, you know their audience very well. So I can very well target a very specific type of person or in LinkedIn, a very specific type of professional. But I don't know if it's the right time for the product. So I know they who I just don't know so much about the one. So in that sense, branding is perfect on social and paid social media is a place where like, very visual content will go a long way. However, Google ads or Bing Ads, those are great, because I know the intention, they are their intent to face, meaning they are searching for something. So I know that when I know that now they're looking for snow tires, or now they're looking for ice cream. But I do not know us. Well, who they are. So Google Ads is really good for offers that are happening right now, like 20% discount on a specific product, or, you know, if it's seasonal, then I know people are going to be looking for it. Not that is not good for Brandon, because it is. But it is very good for a specific action. You want them to take a specific action, and they're looking for that. In so we have these conversations. And that's where we find out sometimes that clients have not thought about it all that much. And so we just have the conversation of what do you want to achieve? And in how long? What's the timeframe. So Google ads, as an example, is very good for like getting the low hanging fruit, because it's just people that are searching for the topic, the harder part is whenever you want them to do an action, but also increase your brand awareness. So that's when we start looking around. And also, you know, email marketing is still works is still a thing. Mm hmm. Marketing. And then, and that's a great compliment to any campaign that we do. So we look into their capabilities, can you nurture leads if we bring you leads? Which is very important, if not, and then we have to nurture them within the platform. And then that's a different tactic. So there's a lot of pieces moving. Yeah.

Niara: And and that's where those conversations are so important.

Steven: Yeah. And I think and I've kind of touched on this before, when I've talked to people is my win. Certainly, as I've been learning, marketing, over the past couple of years, you kind of learn something new, you get excited about it, you think it's like the new shiny red ball, and then it doesn't quite turn out how you think. And like, and it correct me if I'm wrong, because it sounds like what you're saying is like, this is a broad stroke, but like, like social media marketing is going to be great for brand awareness, but not necessarily like lead gen as not that it can't, whereas Google Ads is going to be like you said very timely, like they're looking for something new. They want to read a very specific article or they want to buy something or something like that. And then in that case, not as much brand awareness, but definitely more leads And potentially, or at least driving sales directly. As opposed to when I first started, it was like Facebook advertising is awesome. It's awesome for everything. But then it isn't like not at all. It's not. Oh, and like you said, and part of this because yes, so maybe you run a great ad. But if there you can't nurture it, then like, what good is it? exact thousand bucks for no reason.

Naira: Exactly. And it's not that you cannot do lead gen with social media, because we actually have very successful lead gen. campaigns on LinkedIn specifically. So that's a, that's a social media platform where lead gen works really well, is just that those that lead generation that lead that you get from social media, you're going to have to nurture it a little bit more, because, as I said, is, is the CEO that you wanted, but it's not the time for your software, maybe. So you continue nurturing, you continue educating them, and at some point, that lead actually will become a sale. But it takes longer because they weren't in the in the frame of mind. They just saw what you had to offer. And they really were interested. But maybe it was not the right time. Wearing Google ads, like you said, they are looking for a specific thing. So that lead generation, that's why I call it getting the low hanging fruit, because now is the time you have to strike it. And normally the Google leads tend to convert much faster.

Steven: Yeah. That's good to know. So based on you talked a little bit, in your questions, when we talked a little bit ahead of time is being able to do things on like a shoestring budget, right? having like a low budget system, what kind of just give us a like a little bit of overview, because I don't want you to give away the whole pie. And I mean, what does, what kind of stuff do you typically do when the budgets smaller? Does that just mean the testing takes more time? Does it mean less platforms? Like what's your typical approach for that?

Naira: Yeah, you know, your stuff, Steven?

Naira: Yes, that's, that's what it means. It means that we can test less, and we have to test for longer, and also that our learnings are going to be much slower to accumulate. So our optimization will be slower as well. Because in testing, there's so many variables that we have to test that until I have touched upon all of them, you know, the optimization just stalls a little bit, right? Also, it is looking for the channel that is going to give you the most results for every dollar so that we can fund other things in the future. So if I get you sales really fast, then that means that you will have more budget for us to try another channel to push the creative to set up an email merge nurturing. So it is evaluation of channels, evaluation of how much time is going to take us and just set realistic expectations. If you spend $5, a day on Facebook, don't spend 1000 sales that day, because that's going to be very difficult to achieve.

Steven: Right? So then when you say the timeframe is longer, like how long are we talking about, like between, say, your average, well funded ad as opposed to lower?

Naira: Yeah, so I will find that ad or campaign, we can start testing immediately. And within a week, we will get very good optimal results that then we can improve upon with we have a lot of learnings with startups as an example that do not have a lot of money. And where those badges exist, I was not exaggerating, there are people that have spent $5 a day in Facebook, that's going to take kind of a couple of months, if not three months, to really get a sense of is your audience correct? Is your creative, correct? Is it you know, we start out of the gate with the best possible assumptions and based on our experience, but but it is a game of adjusting all the time to your own product to your own audience. And finding that optimal place takes time and takes money.

Steven: Right? Yeah, I think that's been my problem. Like when we've run ads for ourselves as to try stuff out and experiment a little bit. I feel like we're always just pulling the plug too soon. You know, because we don't we're not spending like $5,000 to, you know, discover who are you know, most engaged people are on the ad to know like, oh, like this video is working better than this video. This thumbnail is working better than that thumbnail and it's like, sorry about my cat. I'm always more interesting to my channel. When I'm doing something they're not supposed to be involved in. But I always feel like I'm pulling the plug too early. And at that point, it doesn't have a I don't think Facebook has enough data to work with to say like, okay, that's gonna work.

Naira: Yeah, exactly. Three months. Yeah. Yeah, it's any it's really hard to it's nailbiting, right to see your results not being like out of the gate fantastic. And just continue to spend money. But that is because the algorithm has to learn as an example, Facebook needs 50 conversions in a seven day period. So if you say I want, I want leads, he needs 50 leads in a seven day period to really fully optimize and know where it's going next. And he just needs basic data. So in that sense, you know, the algorithm is trying to find where to go next, but it just doesn't have enough time or enough quantity of data. So

Steven: that makes sense. That explains why it's the results have been a little less than exciting.

Steven: Like, I'm doing three weeks instead of three months, because I'm just like, looking at my Facebook bill. And I'm like, I don't I don't think so.

Naira: I don't think Yes, exactly. In that sense. In Google ads, we recommend, like at least a month before we can start saying this is not working, especially if the budgets are small. Yeah. And And believe me, it's even hard for me because we're in a partnership, I care about your business. So I'm, I'm biting my nails, I don't have long nails, I bite my nails looking at their cell phones. Right? Oh, my gosh, come on, I'll go to them, you can do it?

Steven: Absolutely. Well, I mean, you know, and I think it's like that communication, like what you're talking about earlier, where it's like, they have to understand the expectation of like, I'm not going to have anything exciting to tell you for like two months. And it's okay, that's normal. So that way, you can kind of talk them over the ledge a little bit, because anyone's going to be concerned, like, Who's gonna spend money on stuff that doesn't work? You know what I mean? Like, so after, if something's not working for a full month, unless you have someone like you to talk them over the edge? Like, why would anyone keep spending money? You know, that'd be crazy.

Naira: And the the thing is, to that everything, even failed tests have something that we can learn from. So finding those learnings that is going to make their business that much better, is part of why people will hire us, instead of just doing it their own. Because on your own, you're not a Facebook expert, you don't know, those hidden learnings that we could tell you like, oh, okay, people are not converting the way you want it. But hey, you know, what, they're sharing it in their own newsfeed. And these means that they're engaged with your content. And they like, what they're seeing so much that they put it on their own newsfeed. Right, right. Or people are liking your posts, and commenting. And these are the comments that are showing up. Let's learn from that. And so we've actually build whole communities through paid advertising for a startup, where they just came in, and their audience actually kind of didn't like them whenever they came to us. And because they were targeting, first they were targeting their own people. Yeah, second, you know, sometimes your your message is off. And so through paid advertising, through research of audience through all this feedback, we were able to actually change the course of their marketing. And now they actually work with even influencers, influencers will come to them, and ask to collaborate. And now that's, that's actually a big part of who they are is their community. So I feel very proud of what we did with that particular company. And it's done whenever you have good advice and good learnings behind your marketing.

Steven: Right? I mean, the market is the most honest feedback you'll ever get. And so then when you put something out there, and everyone's like, boo, you know, I mean, like, that's, that's hard to stomach. Because it seems like based on what you talked about, like there wasn't anything wrong with what they were doing. It was how they were doing it, and who they were doing it with, you know what I mean? That was the disconnect. It wasn't like they had some garbage product. You don't I mean, it was that it was just the wrong people. And of course, you know, the wrong person at the wrong time. You've got an unhappy person. But for the business owner, that's still like a little bit of a mind trip to try to get through. And it's Yeah, especially a startup startup when they're trying to get profitable as quickly as possible. It's like, that'd be devastating.

Naira: Exactly, exactly. And to be honest with you, if they would have stopped with the previous agency. They said, Facebook doesn't work for us. Then they would have missed out on what we could give them, which was the rest of the year, like we change in February. And by April, they already had an amazing community that then we they were ready to hear why we were selling to them. Right? So good thing that they didn't. I mean, again, the previous agency, or whoever they were using, was targeting the wrong person. But they didn't give up. They just tried to optimize any of these guys, we were the optimization.

Steven: That's good. I was gonna keep pushing forward. Yeah. So we've talked a lot about Facebook, but what sort of, like other? Have you guys been experimenting on some of the newer platforms? Like, have you guys ran ads on tik tok? Or? Mm hmm. That's the only thing I can think of right now. But just like some of the newer ones that just because I only think about it, because I think they opened up ads, like, months ago, maybe I don't know how long it's been, it was certainly a surprise to me when I serve saw my first ad on it. Any new platforms that you've guys been experimenting with? Mm hmm.

Naira: Yeah, we are actually going to start experimenting in some new platforms. Again, we only give to our clients what they need. And we have not had a client where Tiktok was a good channel. So new channels come up, and everybody gets excited, too. We be in it, everybody's in it. And I have I have, I always recommend, yes, if your audience is in it, then let's go for it. But also, there is the problem of Do you have the capability to create content that actually fits that channel? I do not believe on just taking whatever is working on Facebook and put it on Tick Tock because it won't work.

Steven: Very different platforms. 100. And

Naria: You've run that so you know, right? Well, I haven't

Steven: ran ads on him. But like I say, like, as a consumer. And as a creator, I have definitely felt the pressure of knowing that like the video I put on YouTube, and Instagram and Facebook, and LinkedIn is not even vaguely similar to the content that actually gets washed on. Tick tock, it's very, very different format is definitely like nobody's going on Tick Tock to watch something serious. You know what I mean? It's always like super happy or kind of, like, super sad, depending on who it is. And so or inspiring. And so then when we go to make content, it's like, like, one thing that we did that was super fun, is we did a video where I think it was like the Vogue challenge or something like that with different outfits. So like I did different outfits, depending on like if I was meeting a client or doing a tic Tock or on vacation, just like something fun, which like is something I would never put on YouTube. And we probably get like five views or something like that. But we put it on Tick Tock because that's what people were doing. And so instead of trying to make a, you know, square peg fit in a round hole, we just made content to fit. And that was like it was light hearted. It was fun. It was definitely not like professional. But if you put professional content on Tick tock, it stands out. It's like why is that there?

Niara: Yeah, yeah, it's definitely the audience and the intention of them being there. And yeah, so Tiktok is its own its own class, and I watching it really closely. So as soon as I have a client that wants to go that far, I will go that far.

Steven: Isn't it interesting? I mean, I know it's kind of technically been around for a long time, because it was musically first. But isn't it interesting how quickly and as popularity, it's gone to an older crowd. Mm hmm. I feel like with some of the other platforms, like especially like the Snapchat, it's been like a lot like it was popular for a long time. And then older people got on the boat, I feel like now it's like it went from like, 14 year olds being ridiculous to like adults in like, a matter of a year, which is super fast compared to some of the other platforms, I feel.

Naira: Yeah, but think about it. So now a lot of people are in, you know, inside their homes with their kids. And it's like, so now I can see what you're doing all day. Let me see that. And a lot of them have joined in. So it's been forced, right upon adult people, like you say, so, yeah, I think that this year has been an unusual year for every platform. And I think they've benefited from that.

Steven: 100% I think that's totally true. I can guarantee you there's been like a million moms who have been like, Hey, I can dance to like, give me that.

Naira: Exactly, exactly. And then the audience has accepted that as a as a great piece of content. So it's, it's been it's been fun to see them grow, that's for sure.

Steven: Yeah. So So you mentioned during this like time of COVID that That has sort of affected average, you know, or at least the platform's. How have you seen it affecting advertising? Like, has it changed the way you guys have advertised as it pretty much basically been the same? But maybe there's just more attention? Because people are home? Like, how has like, what sort of clever ways? Have you guys taken advantage of that?

Naira; Yeah, so um, it was, it's been a roller coaster, let me tell you. So at the very beginning of COVID, a lot of brands pulled out because their message was off topic. So they had to go create more content. So in our case, our clients, a lot of them, their content was still relevant. So we took advantage of those lower cost per impression. And were able to maximize our budgets, you know, distribution in between the channels, and we were able to reach a lot of people that way with the same budget. So in that sense, we benefited a little bit from the exit of other advertisers right now. And at the beginning, a lot of people had a lot of time in their hands. And they were able to get in social media way more than they would otherwise. However, things evolve and got more complicated, and life at home got more complicated. And so what I see now is a lot of the patterns coming back in the costs. So q4 is going to be more expensive. But also I see much less engagement, that people are way more distracted. And there is a lot going on, not only copied, but before in the very beginning of COVID. Time, lower impressions, great engagement, and now people are very distracted and costs are going up. So in that sense, we have to work harder in the content that we have. And we have to optimize much more then at the very beginning of this pandemic.

Steven: Well, that makes sense, because people got kicked out of their offices, but there was so many businesses and managers who had not yet developed what a remote office would look like. And so then what do you do for work? You just kind of sitting around? And that makes sense that now that businesses have matured over the past couple of months and been able to learn what what looks like the function remotely? Yeah, all of a sudden, people have to work again.

Naira: Yeah, you don't have to work again. Yeah. Oh,

Naira: I know. And, you know, especially on the b2b side, because now businesses are planning at the very beginning was like, Oh, is this going to be a week thing, a two week, maybe a month, maybe we can survive like this. But now they have realized that this is here to stay, and that we have to make plans for long term. And he things go back to normal tomorrow, then great, we have a plan B, but they have planned for the remote working, they have planned for how their business looks for the future. And so that affects a lot of the social media especially and in what business are looking forward to do in 2021?

Steven: Well, that is perfect lead into the next one, which is what are the plans that you have for the coming year? 2021.

Niara: But learning tic Toc Yeah, right.

Naira: Um, yeah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna. So I springhill D shadow is doing more and more of that creative part that we talked about. We used to just place media and optimize based on Creative that our clients gave us. And so we're going to expand into being able to provide with a strategic guidance and creative assistance, which makes for a better media results. Whenever we know what's working, we know. And we we see the results. And we read all the comments, I actually read all the comments that come into the ads, believe it or not, just to see if I'm hitting the mark. Oh, yeah, and where copy should go. And so it's been digitized. It's already has clients that we advise, but we're going to actually do it for more clients in you know, the person that heads that is amazing. And on new platforms. There's new platforms coming up that we have subscribed to be on the beta and one of them is the self serving ads for Hulu as an example. And that's going to be huge.

Steven: And yeah, some other more ecommerce oriented platforms that we can advertise on. So yeah, we're gonna be bc on 2021 I believe it when it's so funny, the bring up the stuff with Hulu because literally like my last digital hustle show interview that I did A good friend of mine works on Ott marketing, with like, a lot of those companies, not necessarily Hulu, but like some of the especially some of the smaller platforms. And he's like, it is unreal, the opportunity that's coming with those because because of the fact that like with TV, you're just kind of like, putting it out there, right? And like, okay, maybe you're putting it on the Phoenix channel. But that's like, as specific as it gets. All of the demographics that you have, with not all of them. But I would say like a lot of demographics that you have, like social media that everyone's come to love and appreciate, and use are now going to start showing up in TV with, like, the hulu's, and the crackle and all those other ones, which is really going to be pretty wild. And it's very fresh and new. Like it's not a lot of people are doing it. So that's exciting that you're jumping in. And I'm certainly getting curious myself, since I'm actually creating the content that try to jump in on that bandwagon while it's still young and still reasonably priced. Reasonable ish.

Naira: Yeah. Yeah. It's funny how platforms will decide to be very expensive, like Snapchat, started with like, you can advertise in Snapchat, because it was like, oh, anyone or $50,000. And I think Twitter did that, too. And then they reduce it. All there's a start on the low side, and then they start making it very expensive. So yeah, that's interesting.

Steven: Right? So to kind of jump over to something a little less serious. Um, one of the last questions I usually like to ask people is what gets you out of bed every single day, what gets you fired up?

Naira: Oh, I get fired up. Like the days that I want to get up with a lot of enthusiasm are days where I'm going to do something new. Just doing something new is always exciting. And you project and you client, I always get excited about a new task. Anything that is new, it gets me excited, because it has so many possibilities. So in even with with existing clients, obviously, I love them. But just what one next, what can we do next, to make these even better? I am going back to that optimization part, right? It's like, what can we do to make it better. So that's what gets me really excited to get out of it.

Steven: I believe it.

Naira: So we have a planning guide that you can get totally for free, I will ask for your email address, just maybe to follow up in the future. I want I want sell that information to anybody. But you can get a three page planning checklist. So basically, we go in and we say have you thought about the creative, the creative is important, the pictures, the copy the call to action, all these little things that make a difference in your ad, but that you may miss and just try to wing it at the end. And that's when things go wrong. So your to you and your listeners, if you want to go to Spring Hill digital comm in the homepage, there is a planning checklist, if you're going to do it on your own, go ahead and at least read it. And that way you know what to plan for.

Steven: I think that's huge. I think for one that's an awesome value given I think for an email, and then to, you know, like we talked about earlier, that's like something that they're going to take with Him forever. You know, when they answer that question, like that's going to be something that's going to benefit them for a long time until something major changes in their business or something like, what kind of creative you want to make is an incredibly important question to ask yourself and what your voice is and what kind of results you want to see. Because once you're on the same page with that, and everyone's like firing on all four cylinders with that, then that's when your business I feel like really go somewhere like, we're really going for awareness. Well, then, like you said, you're probably not going to do Google ads. You know what I mean? You're going to be Paulien, doing awareness campaigns on Facebook and creating a whole bunch of stuff and posting everywhere because you're trying to get your awareness up. But until you know that you're just guessing

Naira: Exactly. You're just guessing and knowing that helps you even once you go into the platform because the platform is the first thing that either LinkedIn or Facebook they actually that's the first thing that they need for their algorithm to work is what do you want out of this? And if you have not thought about it, that's the first roadblock that you're gonna encounter in

Naria: Your I don't know, and then we've

Steven: stripped, stripped. Well thank you so much for being on the show. We'll probably put it in the show notes but is there so you can we people can find you on Spring Hill digital is on it. Any other places that you're at regularly that you think people should check you at it,

Naira: We publish a lot of content that it's always on our website. But we do publish in our pages in Spring Hill digital in Facebook. And you can also find us on LinkedIn. If that's, that's where you like to hang out. The content is very similar. And he can always, you can always go to our archives in our website. So it's pretty Himalaya will be the place that I will direct you to mainly. That's the hub.

Naira: Yeah, Spring Hill. digital.com.

Steven: Well, good. Well, thank you very much for being on the show. I certainly appreciate your honesty and your realness and the value that you share today. So I think it's going to be super helpful, whether someone just kind of curious or if someone is trying to really try to take their business to the next level. So and they can they can check you out online and start out with that sheet, which will be huge to get started. So thank you very much.

Naira: Yeah, absolutely. It was. It was a pleasure. It was a lot of fun. Well, thank you.